The following interview with Mae appeared in the Winter 1978 edition of A-albionic's newsletter Conspiracy Digest, Vol. III, No. 1.    You can visit their website here.

    INTRO: Mae Brussell is a wellknown West Coast conspiriologist and assassination researcher. As usual our questions are framed not to win an argument and impress our audience, but only to bring out the views of the interviewee most fully and accurately. So please, no letters this time chastising me for not arguing hard enough. On the other hand, letters of substance are welcome!

   C.D.: Personally, I no longer have any firm prescriptions for social betterment. The study of conspiracy seems to indicate that the laws of reality give the dedicated conspirators the upper hand against anyone with any version of social reform in mind. Another way of looking at it is that evil has a better feedback loop than good. The loot gained by conspiracy puts power in the hands of a few conspirators who then can undertake even vaster conspiracies to further enhance their power. The fruits of "good" movements, on the other hand, are widely dispersed among the people rather than being concentrated and available for further success.
   Perhaps this would be a good question. Do you have any reaction?

   M.B.: Conspiracies and the centralization of power in the hands of a few does present a problem when those conspirators are not dedicated to social reforms.
   There are also philosophical, literary, and historical examples where evil does not have a better feedback loop than good.
   The laws of reality do not guarantee that power gained from force and monopoly will be lasting or of any long range value to those who have struggled to obtain that power.
   Ralph Waldo Emerson's essay on Compensation describes my views about evil, power, and the attempted manipulations of mankind and nature:

   The farmer imagines power and place are fine things. But the President has paid dear for his White House. It has commonly cost him all his peace and the best of his manly attributes. To preserve for a short time so conspicuous an appearance before the world, he is CONTENT TO EAT DUST BEFORE THE REAL MASTERS WHO STAND ERECT BEHIND THE THRONE.
   This law (of compensation) writes the laws of the cities and nations. It is in vain to build or plot or combine against it. Things refuse to be mismanaged long. Though no checks to a new evil appear, the checks exist and will appear. If the government is cruel, the governor's life is not safe. If you tax too high, the revenue will yield nothing.
   The dice of God are always loaded. Every secret is told, every crime is punished, every virtue rewarded, every wrong redressed in silence and certainty.

   David, the poet, was able to halt Goliath, the giant. Remember Achilles' heel? Children love Popeye and instant spinach. Power comes from many sources to counteract evil.
   Evil has never had a better feedback loop than good. The popularity of Star Wars today has to do with the longing for heroes, the triumph of good over evil, the FORCES of good winning.
   The CIA spent $26,000,000 tax dollars over a 25 year period with the express purpose of altering human behavior, starting as early as 1947. All of this budget was not for defensive purposes, but to erase memories and to cause apathy at home. Dr. Jose Delgado, Yale University, funded by Navy Intelligence (our tax money again), specializes in electronically controlling human beings. We are preparing for future warfare robots. If power and evil provide such a good feedback, why the necessity to worry about emotions such as anxiety, guilt, or conscience?
   Power is temporary and illusive. It can be shattered by one leak or piece of evidence. One slip of scotch tape placed on the door latch at the Watergate Hotel, Washington, D. C. was responsible for removing the President, Vice-President, Attorney General, Secretary of Commerce, top Presidential aides and attorneys. No one has yet admitted who put the second tape back on the door.
   Every person with illegal secrets to hide has been bugged, followed, and blackmailed.
   The kinds of conspiracies I am talking about pertain to political assassinations and their cover-up.
   The fruits of good movements are too widely dispersed. They receive no assistance from the Federal Government.
   The FBI Cointel-Program and the CIA's Operation Chaos have been breaking up leftist type organizations and social-cultural activities with a purposeful vengeance (again with our tax dollars).
   Divide and conquer is the rule, whether inside the prisons or at charitable meetings. Anywhere people get together they are infiltrated.
   The ratio of agents and informants has been about one provoceteur to five members of any given group.
   There has been a systematic effort to kill all leaders whose awareness or activities interfere with international oil interests or narcotics traffic.
   It has been alleged that the CIA-FBI combine, in conjunction with the Defense Industrial Security Command, has supported a school in Oaxaco, Mexico, for professional assassins. This religious academy, disguised as a missionary, was exposed in 1970 and might be disbanded since that date. Albert Osborne, alias John Howard Bowan, director and head "missionary," accompanied Lee Harvey Oswald on his trip to Mexico in September, 1962. Oswald, not an assassin, was patsy for the men who killed President John F. Kennedy.
   The killing of Kennedy was only one of dozens or possibly hundreds of murders of leaders around the world, or potential future leaders.
   With this kind of worldwide organization in operation, (funded by our tax dollars, sent through various Church fronts around the country) how can any good movements or leaders ever serve the people?

   C.D.: Do you think, then, that centralization of power can be a good thing as long as the power is held by persons selected by the people and dedicated to what you consider to be a valid program of social reform?
   Doesn't power always corrupt? Aren't the worst always attracted by the prospect of centralized power? Wouldn't extreme decentralized power be the solution to conspiracy?

   M.B.: Centralization of power is always dangerous. What is valid social reform to one group, such as Hitler's Germany, is genocide for others.
   I have to agree with Thomas Jefferson's thoughts about power, "I have never been able to conceive how any rational being could bring happiness to himself from the exercise of power over others."
   You have to understand that my views about power and happiness are not realistic or even possible. Utopian dreams of a world without fear, killings, and unnecessary pains is only a goal which makes every day a challenge, and every hour worthwhile.
   Yes, power corrupts. The worst are attracted by centralized power. The solution is for parents to avoid playing power trips on their children, for the educators to stop playing power games on the students, for the church to avoid power and fear threats on the parishioners, and for the government to halt dividing economic and ethnic groups against each other.
   Conspiracies are possible when people have been conspired against from birth. If parents, schools, church, and government divested themselves of the games that increase their power, new sources of energy and production would take their place and do a much better job with what has to be accomplished.

   C.D.: What is your attitude on the Right-Left dichotomy? From your writing I would presume that you have a "left-wing" background and probably are favorably disposed to socialism or "true" communism. Could you describe your social-political ideals? Everyone knows what Mae Brussell is against. Your positive philosophy, on the other hand, would be news to many of our readers.

   M.B.: My attitude on the Right-Left dichotomy should not enter into or affect my research. When a biologist looks at cancer cells in a microscope, they are not Republican or Democratic or Socialist cells. There is no right-left distinction in diseases.
   I examine autopsy reports, sworn testimony under oath, Congressional Hearings, FBI, CIA, and other Government documents, witness testimony, police reports, books, articles, and unpublished manuscripts along with newsletters.
   My conclusions about assassinations and their cover-up are cross referenced and constantly checked for changes or new information.
   The FBI and Los Angeles Police Department have photographs labeled that prove ten or more bullets were fired in the Ambassador Hotel the night Sen. Robert Kennedy was killed.
   Sirhan Sirhan's weapon only fires eight shots.
   There is no indication or proof that any of Sirhan's bullets went into Kennedy. The fatal shot came from behind the Senator, into his head. A guard from Lockheed, Thane Cesar, fired his gun that night.
   The coat sleeve of Kennedy's was cut off and is missing.
   The ceiling panels, in the direction of Cesar's bullets, are gone.
   Sirhan Sirhan's weapon was "sold" and is out of the state, probably destroyed.
   If the Republicans and the right-wing did the killing and cover up, we should know.
   If the Democrats or Communists did the killing or cover-up, we should know.
   L.A. Chief of Police Ed Davis, and former District Attorney Evelle Younger, at the time of the cover-up, are both running for Governor of California. The voters should be informed if they were part of conspiracy to silence the murder of a Senator and Presidential candidate.
   The voters must be informed about whoever is guilty. This has nothing really to do with Right-Left.
   There are existing documents to prove the CIA-FBI was planning the murder of Richard Nixon in 1972. Conservative George Wallace was eliminated from the 1972 elections because of a near assassination.
   I want to know who is killing Republicans or Conservatives as much as I want to know who is killing President John F. Kennedy, Sen. Robert Kennedy, Malcolm X, Rev. Martin Luther King, or hundreds of others less known: witnesses to these murders or near murders.
   Everyone doesn't know what Mae Brussell is against. If I tell you what I am against, you can deduce or know what I am for.
   I am against the planned political assassinations by our Intelligence and Defense agents. The CIA-FBI-DIA and DISC, Defense Industry Security Command were set up originally to protect citizens of the USA. They became their own judges and juries, private servants of corporations with investments at home and abroad.
   I am against the constant destruction of evidence in criminal matters and political assassinations. Prime witnesses are murdered before or after testifying. Diaries are forged and planted in obvious places. Doubles are created to confuse. The Police Departments manipulate facts in cooperation with conspirators.
   I am outraged that our judicial system since 1947 has been patterned after Nazi Germany. Patsies are dead or locked away. The assassins walk the streets or leave the country, "home free."
   I am against using the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Earl Warren, to cover up the assassination of President Kennedy. When the highest court is corrupt, there is no hope at local levels.
   I am against allowing the CIA to spend $25,000,000 since 1947 for the express purpose, as stated before, to alter our behavior. Is the State supreme over individuals? Who owns or controls our minds?
   Why was CIA Director Allen Dulles allowed to order 100,000,000 LSD tablets? Were one half the U.S. population going to receive their doses? What gives the CIA and Pentagon the right to define normal, or to determine what is National Security? Are we being drugged through food, water, and supplied with chemicals so we become slaves and robots? Where is all the cancer coming from? Why the preoccupation with death?
   Why is the U.S. Government in the business of creating a "Psyche-civilized" world? Who is ordering the ultrasonic waves to lower brain waves of cities' populations to an alpha state, leaving citizens susceptible to mass propaganda and hypnotic suggestion? These facts have been confirmed by researcher Walter Bowart in 1977. I learned about the project years ago.
   I am against the mass media, CBS, ABC, NBC, UPI, and AP being used by Washington D.C. since WWI, and by the CIA since WWII as pure propaganda tools. The so-called liberal New York Times and Washington Post would make Adolf Hitler proud. Notice that in all the Washington Post accolades about Watergate exposures, they never delved into the massive evidence surrounding the murder of Mary Jo Kopechne, the shooting of George Wallace, the Howard Hughes connections, or the murder of J. Edgar Hoover, the planned riots for Miami in 1972, the assassination plans for Richard Nixon through both the San Diego Secret Army Organization and the Andrew Topping arrest in New York. The media are cover-up artists. They allow assassins or would-be-assassins to fade away.
   One thing is certain about all these matters. The laws of nature are such that certain truths are going to come out. It is only a matter of time.

There is no den in the wide world to hide a rogue. Commit a crime. You cannot recall the spoken word, you cannot wipe out the foot track, you cannot draw up the ladder as to leave no inlet or clue. SOME DAMNING CIRCUMSTANCE ALWAYS TRANSPIRES. The laws and substances of nature become penalties to the thief.

    Ralph W. Emerson

   My positive philosophy is very simple. I believe there is in each of us a potential for peace and harmony. A few power-mad perverts dictate orders that must be challenged. They are going against the laws of nature.
   A family and society that does not care for its infants with love and affection will create and does produce mad bombers. The source of this peace and harmony is within the family unit, not with Government agents or law enforcement. Without love in the home there is never quiet in the community, cities, or around the world.
   There are ways to counteract the evil being purposely planned. Study history. Separate fears and prejudices from facts. Recognize facts from propaganda. Invest energy in fighting for what you believe in. Analyze harder where we are going and what you are doing about it. What do you really believe in? How much do we care?

   C.D.: Where can our readers get information on Walter Bowart's research on the mind control uses of ultra-sonic waves and micro-waves?

    M.B.: Walter Bowart's book "Operation Mind Control" will be published in the Spring, 1978.
   Bowart's allegations about the CIA using ultrasonic waves on the human brain to control the behavior pattern of entire cities confirms information I received in 1974 about the same project.
   A reliable source of information told me that a radio tower and a tall bank tower in San Francisco were going to extend a beam to have virtual radio control of that entire city. He informed me that the radio frequencies would make meditation impossible. The radio towers were being utilized for future control of our minds.
   The same week that I received this information, an article in the Los Angeles Times appeared mentioning the use of radio beams over large cities to control the population.

    C.D.: CONSPIRACY DIGEST has often propounded the theory that the Right-Left political-economic spectrum is an artificial concoction of the ruling class/conspiracy that creates a "heads I win tails you lose" situation for the ruled class. Isn't the choice between Communism and Fascism only a choice in style of tyranny? Are you familiar with Antony Sutton 's Wall Street series of books that documents that both Nazism and Soviet Communism were financed largely by the same Wall Street cabal whose interest was in creating the conditions for big government favoritism as opposed to laissez-faire competition?

    M.B.: The choices between Fascism and Communism are not our ONLY alternatives. Tyranny, by any name, isn't the only solution.
   I am familiar with Antony Sutton's books and own a few.
   Naziism and Soviet Communism were financed by Wall Street Cabals. They were NOT FUNDED TO SUPPORT COMMUNISM.
   Money was poured in the USSR and behind the Iron Curtain for the purpose of funding future uprisings and encouraging dissidents.
   Nazi agents are behind part of the KGB and MKD.
   Just as Wall Street poured money in Russia after WWI, Allen Dulles, attorney for the Wall Street Cabal, then Director of the CIA, funded Adolf Hitler's Chief of Nazi-Eastern Intelligence with $200,000,000 (our tax dollars once again). Gehlen was paid for his agents behind the Iron Curtain and for Cold War - Hot War purposes. This money does not go for Communism, but anti-communism even though it is sent inside Communist territory.
   Marina Oswald's background was White Russian aristocracy. Marina has overwhelming links to the CIA, Defense Industry, and General Reinhard Gehlen's agents through the CIA/Greek Orthodox Church. Her membership in the Communist Komsomol Organization was a leftist front that didn't fool the State Department or violently Anti-Communist Rescue Commission that met Lee and Marina in New York City.
   The right-left political and economic spectrum is a farce. Howard Hughes Summa Company, the South Korean KCIA, Hughes Medical Institute, and other similar funding front operations have bought our Congress, Republicans as well as Democrats. Those that can't be bought are blackmailed.

    C.D.: On numerous occasions you refer to the Buckley school of conservatives and his youth wing, Young Americans for Freedom, as connected to CIA/ruling class dirty tricks and even the Kennedy Assassination. Few conspiracy buffs would dispute the CIA-Buckley-Establishment connection. Of course, Buckley is death on conspiracy theory, which fails. His favorite target is "paranoids."
   What do you think of the conspiracy-minded right such as the Liberty Lobby and the John Birch Society? No doubt you differ with their theories, but do you think they are largely sincere? Or are they black propaganda outlets for the Establishment? Or like many other organizations are they simply infiltrated and used from time to time in specific black propaganda campaigns? In one of your tapes you seemed to imply that George Schuler's American Opinion attack on Malcolm X contained outright lies and was timed to coincide with Malcolm's assassination. Comments?

    M.B.: William Buckley's favorite target may be paranoids. Paranoia is a psychological diagnosis applied to a disease of the mind. Buckley is hardly any psychiatrist. He is a useful media showcase and propaganda machine.
   When Buckley states his opinions in writing or on the air, he never prefaces remarks or articles by providing facts about his CIA days with E. Howard Hunt. Few people know that Buckley's family fortune came from Pantipec Oil Company. E. Howard Hunt and George DeMohrenschildt, Oswald's CIA baby-sitter, both worked under Warren Smith. Smith was President of Buckley's Pantipec Oil.
   Buckley not only worked with E. Howard Hunt in the CIA, but formed the notorious YAF with Douglass Caddy, co-worker in the CIA office of Mullen and Co. of Watergate fame.
   Members of the YAF were brought from U.S. Military Intelligence in Germany to the Dallas-Ft. Worth area in the fall of 1962. Their object was to infiltrate and take over this conveniently formed new organization. Orders went from Larry Schmidt, first to arrive, that all members had to be in Dallas before JFK arrived ... for their briefings and roles to be played. There is more to the Buckley-CIA-YAF-Caddy connections than time allows here.
   Liberty Lobby and the John Birch Society accumulate interesting facts. Their numbers are correct, but the conclusions can't be proven and are in error.
   Jimmy Carter sent a message into the new spacecraft. He wrote that "we human beings are still divided into nation states, but these states are rapidly becoming a single global civilization."
   The Birch Society and Liberty Lobby would claim this is proof of "one world" conspiracy of communism and the communists are winning their goals. On the other hand, my assessment forces me to believe the Bormann Brotherhood exists. Hitler's goal to rule the world through satellites and weapons is working. We are moving into the Nazification of planet earth.
   Carter's Human Rights issue is a sham. He scolds the USSR. We support and fund South Africa, Argentina, Chile, Brazil, South Korea, Nicaragua, Iran, feudal Middle-East countries with no trials and much torture.
   George Schuler's attack upon Malcolm X, published in American Opinion, Feb. 1973, argues that it would be better to memorialize Benedict Arnold, a known traitor, than Malcolm X.
   Malcolm X was never a traitor to the USA.
   Schuler's put down on Malcolm begins by stating Malcolm X was once a pimp, dope peddler, ex-convict who served ten years for robbery.
   He fails to mention the murder of Malcolm's father, the causes of his hatred and poverty, the reasons blacks get into crime. Schuler doesn't praise Malcolm X for changing his ways, for his eloquent self-education, for his published lectures and writings, for his ability to raise himself above the gutter to become an inspiration for many people.
   White racists use Black fools and Jewish apologists for much of their dirty work.
   The anti-semitic YAF - John Birch Society wanted to place an ad, "Wanted for Treason," with a black border, into the newspapers the day JFK was assassinated in Dallas, Texas. Members of the Birch Society paid for the ad. Neo-Nazi Christians wrote the ad. Whose name was at the bottom, in the newspaper Nov. 22, 1963? Jew boy Bernard Weissman. Why his name? Weissman testified before the Warren Commission that they wanted his name "because he was Jewish." Why did they need a Jewish name identified with the death of JFK? Because another Jew, Jack Rubenstein (Ruby), who always worked with the oil millionaire anti-Semites, and wanted their approval, was also going to be utilized to silence the patsy. No other members of the YAF were asked to come before the Warren Commission. Why not?

   CD: A number of conspiracy researchers are suspicious of the U.S. Labor Parry and NCLC as being funded by powerful governments or private interests. They seem to promote some of your conspiracy theories such as your interpretation of the Symbionese Liberation Army kidnapping of Patty Hearst. What do you think, is Lyndon LaRouche for real? We find it suspicious that a new world Central Bank is the linchpin of his program. Central Banks and their power to create money (power) by slapping ink on paper have always been the primary tool of ruling classes. What is your opinion of the money question?

   M.B.: The U.S. Labor Party always blames the CIA and Rockefeller for everything that is wrong.
   Maybe they are hitting the top dogs. It is hard to argue that one.
   However, the CIA and the Rockefellers can't do it alone. The USLP praises Gerald Ford as a fine man. Ford was a cover-up artist for the Warren Commission. His crime of lies about Oswald in his book and the cover-up of hard evidence make him guilty of crimes worse than Nixon was charged with. Ford covered up the killings of Kennedy, Officer J. D. Tippit, and the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald. Ford brought neo-Nazi G. Gordon Liddy to Washington, D.C. to work in the Treasury Dept. Ford pardoned Nixon because he was guilty of the same charges, cover-up of conspiracies.
   The NCLC never uses documents that prove the Defense Industry Security Command, Division V of the FBI, and other agencies had a part in the assassinations and conspiracies.
   They were and are not interested in assassinations inside the USA.
   Political murders determine who will become head of the Pentagon, Marines, Airforce, Navy, FBI, CIA, Treasury Dept., etc.
   Financial policies, national and international, are controlled by corporations and individuals to make up these multinational nation-state empires. It is the systematic and always planned murders that control their financial investments. I want to know who is murdering. The NCLC speak of the condition. They can't make a proper diagnosis without examining the deaths.
   I agree with the NCLC that terrorism is being funded by the right. This has been an historical truth, a technique used by the Czar, then brought to Germany for the Nazis.
   The SLA is the CIA. It was formed to infiltrate the Bay Area left-wing movements and to test mind control drugs.
   Lyndon LaRouche never writes about Ronald Reagan, Robert Maheu, Howard Hughes, Paul Laxault, the Summa Company, the Hughes Medical Institute in Florida, or others who are the opposite side of the Rockefeller coin. There is a battle going on between the warfare industries and war machine and the Eastern Wall Street gang. The NCLC knows the names of some of the players. They conspicuously omit others. Chase Manhattan Bank is named in Solidarity. Bank of America is never fingered.
   My opinion on the money question could fill your entire issue. Profits are obtained by monopolizing what we need; oil, coal, water, transportation, minerals, gas, food, health, homes, entertainment, and communications (phones).
   Profits are made from what we don't need; drugs, chemicals, tobacco, narcotics, gambling, prostitution, kidnapping, bank robberies, white collar crimes, hijacking, weapons, overcosts, guns, warfare machinery.
   Murders and assassinations that I study pertain to those killings that served some purpose involving future financial gains that would not have occurred without those deaths. If the electoral system were REALLY FREE to allow people to vote for those representatives who could alter their lives and pocketbooks, the profits in the hands of a few would be considerably reduced.
   If the Judicial system really worked, there would be less crimes and less payoffs for murdering.
   Is money the root of all evil? It comes pretty close.
   For a given salary, the head and fingers of SLA leader Donald DeFreeze were cut off before his body was sent to Ohio.
   Who paid for the injections that Jack Ruby and Martha Mitchell received? What laboratory manufactured the substance?
   What profits were made from the LSD given to Patty Hearst while in a closet 45 days?
   How were the car accidents of Murray Chotiner and Clay Shaw financed?
   What did it cost to cover up the fatal plane crash of CIA money bagwoman Dorothy Hunt at the height of Watergate?
   How much was the telephone bill from New York City to Chicago when CBS ordered the cremation of Michelle Clark, victim on Dorothy Hunt's plane along with 45 others?
   Were Jack Ruby's debts of $40,000 to IRS before the Kennedy assassination automatically paid when he obliged and shot Lee Harvey Oswald?
   How much tax money went to fund doubles for Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Donald DeFreeze and James Earl Ray?
   Where are the bankers who are funding violence? Are we paying for all this, the murders, the expensive and lengthy trials, and the silence money, from our earned tax money?
   Who paid the hospital bills in Colorado for Ditta Beard, ITT secretary, when she embarrassed President Richard Nixon?
   The important crises in America are what we are doing and what we are allowing to happen.
   Fascism isn't located in Bank names or bank titles. It is what we are doing to people in front of our eyes.
   According to the New York City Health Department figures during 1976, murder was number 1 cause of death for ages between 15-24. MURDER IS WINNING OVER DRUG ABUSE, CANCER, DISEASES, OR ANY OTHER CAUSE.
   I don't care as much about the banking houses as I do about where money is being abused and wasted. If we were ever to solve these crimes, we could locate which banking houses were behind the plans.

   CD: From listening to your tapes, I seem to detect that you believe that the Bildeberger-CIA-CFR "free world" Establishment ruling class is Anglo-Saxon/White Racist. How do you square this theory with the apparent pro-minority attitude of the Establishment's kept liberals and think tank/foundations? Left-cover? Incitement to backlash?
   How do so many of Jewish descent become prominent in government and finance if the ruling class is still White Racist? How do you account for the Rothschilds, Warburgs, Schiffs, Kissingers, etc.?

   M.B.: The Bildebergers, CIA, CFR establishment ruling class is basically Anglo-Saxon White Racist. There are a few Jewish showpieces allowed on the fringe for entertainment or media coverage.
   Racism in the USA is everywhere, in every prison, police department, and so-called peacemaking organizations.
   The Control of Candy Jones by Donald Bain tells how a New York model was taken by the CIA, injected with sodium pentathol, and hypnotized. Candy was then taught to hate Blacks, Jews, and Italians. Why? Why were our tax dollars (I keep repeating this because it makes me furious that we are funding these crimes) used to further hatred? How many more Candy Joneses were taught to hate? Candy joined the CIA to deliver messages and ended up with two personalities inside her head.
   There is no pro-minority attitude on the part of the Establishment. That is so foolish that I wonder what kind of vacuum you are coming from. Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, and Indians are not part of the mainstream of white USA. They are on the lowest fringe.
   A few Jews such as the Rothschilds, Warburgs, and Schiffs are always the token names for a gentile society. They do not represent assimilation or a symbol of Jew-Christian solidarity.
   Henry Kissinger is a different story. Kissinger was developed by the U.S. Army Intelligence following World War II. Kissinger worked in counter-intelligence. Many Christian agents were assuming names of Jews killed in the concentration camps.
   How is it possible that Jewish Henry Kissinger became the darling protégé of the Rockefeller, Exxon, Standard Oil?
   Kissinger has been photographed kissing Anwar Sadat in Egypt. Sadat has been described as part of Hitler's Nazi brotherhood.
   Would oil magnates, with their anti-Semitic clubs and multimillion investments, allow Jew-Kissinger to make deals and contracts with oil giants in the Middle-East?
   Why does the Shah of Iran, a Moslem, work with Kissinger so well?
   Kissinger put Nazis into power in Greece, Brazil, Chile. They love him. When Hitler's $400,000,000 cash went into Argentina, did they know that Kissinger would be heading our State Department and National Security Council?
   No Jew would be allowed to be in charge of the Pentagon, National Security of the United States. The CIA is a racist organization.
   All of this is impossible!!! Kissinger's Jewish cover conceals the Rockefeller and Wall Street bankers who are directing him.

   C.D.: Isn't it possible that all racial-ethic issues are simply manipulated to keep the ruled class fighting among themselves? It seems incredible to me that men (or women) with the intelligence (if evil intelligence) to conspiratorially rule nations (and maybe even the world) would be so petty-minded as to be racists. What is your reaction?

   M.B.: Racial and ethic issues are not manipulated to keep the ruled class fighting among themselves. Racism is taught from an early age. White men and women fear they will lose their jobs, and also lose their possessions in a competitive market with minorities.
   There must have been a lot of anger accumulated in blacks after slavery which the white man feared might become unleashed. The way to control this situation was and is by continuing hatreds, getting more police, rigging the courts to keep minorities locked up, send narcotics in the ghetto for submission, exclusion from the labor unions and labor market, and many other techniques. You know what they are.

    C.D.: I agree that race prejudice exists to one degree or another at most levels of U.S. society. However, it seems to me that the majority working classes are the most racist because they fear competition for jobs from Blacks and Mexicans.
   The ruling class, especially the Eastern Wall Street gang that controls the "liberal" CBS/ABC/NBC/New York Times/Washington Post, really seems to take the side of minorities. Is this just fake propaganda to rake in minority votes?

    M.B.: The majority of the working classes are not the most racist against each other. Competition for jobs between Indians, Blacks and Chicanos is caused by a racist power structure in this country that refuses to allow jobs in the first place.
   Labor Unions exclude minorities. Medical schools and law schools could be increased by the hundreds instead of bickering over a particular student's grades.
   IQ tests have been proven to be racist, thereby dropping off otherwise qualified students.
   Every white doctor that receives $100,000 a year could earn $25,000 and allow three blacks to also earn the same amount.
   By keeping minorities out of professions, except entertainment and athletics, the white community can keep their residential areas white, their schools white, their churches white, and perpetuate the racism. There is no need for fences or ID cards as in South Africa.
   Law Enforcement, Sheriffs, and government agencies such as the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, DISC are predominantly white.
   We could write an entire issue of CONSPIRACY DIGEST about our differences regarding CBS, ABC, NBC, New York Times, and Washington Post.
   Where do you ever get the label "liberal" for these people?
   How can you possibly say they take the side of minorities? When? Where? How?
   I subscribe to these newspapers and want to puke. I have boycotted major network news coverage since I studied political assassinations because of their lies, distortions, half truths, insinuations, and massive cover-ups.
   The United States press doesn't fake propaganda. They don't even appeal to minorities. To hell with minority votes. These maniacs support military dictatorships and fascism the USA instituted since World War II. They treat the CIA and heads of state as if they were some kind of royalty instead of the war criminals they really are.

   C.D.: Several right-wing authors have theorized that the main conflict in the world is or was the battle between Wasp and Jewish financiers. Or, more simply, that the history of the 2Oth Century is primarily Rockefeller (Standard Oil) vs. Rothschild (Royal Dutch Shell) bottle to control governments and resources. Do you think there is anything to theories?
   What do you think about the Cowboy-Yankee War by Carl Oglesby? Your research would seem to support the theory that Nixon as an agent of the new wealth "Cowboy" capitalist faction (Hughes?) was finally done in by old wealth "Yankee" capitalist faction (Rockefeller-Rothschild) at Watergate.

   M.B.: The main conflict in the world is not between Wasp and Jewish financiers.
   The battle of Cowboy vs. Yankee, Carl Oglesby's theories, are oversimplified. There is no way to mark off geographical boundaries or to separate fighting factions into such categories.
   What we are experiencing are a series of revolutions taking place at the same time. Some of them are political. Others are cultural and social.
   While these changes have been occurring in the 20th century, the old feudal monopolies, economically dependent upon empires, have been grasping for control of sources of power and wealth (listed earlier as sources of profit).
   Three good books that describe the origins for our current moral and financial bankruptcy are The Great Conspiracy by Michael Sayers and Albert E. Kahn, Merchants of Death by H. C. Egglebrecht, and Weimar Republic, Clandestine Rearmament by E. J. Gumbel.
   Following World War I, the allied armies were afraid to disarm German militarism because of fear that Bolshevism was spreading and might go throughout Europe.
   The solution was the secret, clandestine army, Secret Police SS, and a series of over 400 murders that altered the face of Germany.
   U.S. Corporations and Wall Street, along with France and England, began arming Germany.
   World War I had mobilized 66,103,164 men. 37,494,186 were killed. Indirect costs were $151,000,000,000. Direct costs were $208,000,000,000.
   The propaganda myth of the "menace of Bolshevism" put Nazis in power. Adolf Hitler, hypnotized front man for the warfare industries and corporations, was to rid Europe of Bolshevism.
   When World War II was over, and the Communists were still very much alive, the SAME CORPORATIONS AND MULTINATIONAL COMPANIES THAT ARMED GERMANY AFTER WWI... sent the Nazis and war criminals with their money, counterfeit or otherwise, into the USA, Middle East, Asia, Africa, and South America.
   Allen Dulles, attorney for Wall Street, made the arrangements for the Nazis' exit. He became the first director of the CIA in 1947, now patterned after the illegal rearming of the Weimar Republic.
   All of the divisions and decoys we fall into, all the categories of conflicts, never follow history or documents day by the day to see why we are having so many assassinations and cover-ups.
   642 Nazis were brought to our defense industries, universities, and hospitals from 1945- 1952 under Project Paperclip.
   World War II cost 80,000,000 deaths. The cost went up. The rearming for World War III began as early as 1945 when the decision was made to protect the doctors and scientists Hitler used and to continue their experimentations and weapons systems in the USA.
   The real battle now is whether or not it is too late to stop this country from going Fascist.
   If Arab investors, funded by Nazis, withdraw their savings from U.S. banks, the USA will become instantly bankrupt.
   Nazi General Reinard Gehlen had the solution for conquered USSR territory.
   Gehlen was going to turn 50 million Russians into slaves "in accordance with Aryan racial principals, to become sub humans."
   Some "forty million Soviet Citizens would be eliminated by natural means, namely famine." This is the same Gehlen that Allen Dulles provided $200,000,000 of our tax dollars. Yes! Add it up. Are we getting our money's worth? (Gehlen, Spy of the Century, E. H. Cookridge)
   It is easier to understand droughts, famines, terrorism, new kinds of diseases, rare cancers, mind control experiments, stock manipulations, labor strikes and other unpleasant "accidents" of nature in the USA after studying the history of Nazism.

   C.D.: How much conflict do you see in the ruling class? Some conspiriologists think it is all fake, a diversion.

    M.B.: The conflict in the ruling class is between those who are elected and appointed to rule, and those who are acting illegally to condition us for the next war or series of wars.
   We are identical to Germany in 1932. Salvadore Allende had to put up with strikes and the raging of the Chilean citizens who turned out to be paid by the CIA (over 8 million dollars to disrupt his country).
   Nothing is natural today. Billions are going into creating divisions, terror, to make headlines, to spread confusion and fear.
   If any officials come along with independence or suggestions they are killed, blackmailed, ignored, surreptitiously drugged, paid off, or bugged. To make changes today is to enter into an obstacle course.
   The Intelligence Community and those people doing all this manipulating for their power and wealth are moving against the laws of nature. Something must give. Our institutions should be re-examined. Individuals must come forward with enough courage to support investigators like myself who are armed with facts and information.
   As Emerson said, "That form of government which prevails is the expression of what civilization exists in the population which permits it."

    C.D.: Many conspiriologists point the finger at David Rockefeller as the most powerful financial conspirator in America and maybe the world. Do you agree? What about Hughes, H. L. Hunt? Others? Is Chase-Manhattan really going broke?

    M.B.: David Rockefeller might be the most powerful financial conspirator in America. Howard Hughes and H. L. Hunt are dead. Daniel Ludwig is hiding.
   Rockefeller managed to keep their boy Kissinger running all our foreign policies in every country while their Exxon stayed on top, #1 Corporation for profits. Nice arrangement!!
   That is power. The Bildebergers select our Presidents.
   Is Ronald Reagan a member of the Bildeberger and Tri-Lateral?
   I believe that the pecking order for front man Presidents always was Nixon, Agnew, then Reagan. Carter is an interim after Watergate.
   If Ronald Reagan were to become President because of Carter's death, would the Rockefellers be powerful any more?
   Where would the power be transferred? To the Pentagon and away from Wall Street.
   The power is in a silencer, secret weapon, possible drugs to make Carter ill. It comes in many forms. This is a battle royal between two kings, the Rockefeller Dynasty and the Weapons-warfare, clandestine government the Rockefellers created originally for their own power.
   CIA agent John Connally, one of the most powerful men in the world, named as part of the DISC, FBI combine that covered up the JFK assassination, is opening funding offices for Reagan in D.C.
   Can the Rockefellers survive? Are they part of a dying era, identical to Kaiser Wilhelm? Is the AMMUNITION INDUSTRY READY TO TAKE OVER THE USA? That is where the power struggle is taking place.
   The Eastern Wall Street International banks created spies and weapons to march in order to protect their profits. The armies turned against their masters. They decided they could create their own wealth and power. New York is crumbling. The Pentagon is stronger than ever. Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and the top Eastern Universities haven't produced a new idea or a constructive change for all their classical education. They have been swallowed by Pentagon and spy contracts. The USA looks like a dance of death in every major city.

    C.D.: Unless I am misreading you, you seem to have some real respect for John F. Kennedy. Is there any reason to believe that his idealistic line was for real? Wasn't he just another glib gangster that lost? Do you agree with Oglesby that he was an agent of the old Wall Street Eastern Establishment (as was his Nazi leaning father) and that his assassination was plotted by Southern Rim upstarts?

    M.B.: Yes, I do have a respect for John F. Kennedy.
   If you don't believe his idealistic line was for real, just add up what he was doing when he was killed.
   JFK asked his brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, to break up organized crime. Nobody high up in government has tangled the Mafia. J. E. Hoover, the FBI, CIA hired crime members as part of assassination teams. They were used by the FBI and CIA since World War II.
   JFK was attempting to end the oil-tax depletion rip-offs, to get tax money from oil companies.
   JFK instituted the nuclear test ban treaty, often called "the kiss of death," to oppose the Pentagon.
   JFK called off the Invasion of Cuba. He allowed Castro to live, antagonized narcotics and gambling, oil and sugar interests, formerly in Cuba.
   JFK asked his brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, to break up the CIA, the "hidden government behind my back." Allen Dulles was fired. The attorney for international multinationals, Dulles, was angry.
   JFK planned to withdraw troops from Vietnam after 1964 elections. Nov. 24, 1963, two days after JFK's burial, the Pentagon had escalated the Vietnam war ... with no known provocations, after JFK was gone.
   There was no chance Kennedy could survive antagonizing the CIA, oil companies, Pentagon, organized crime. He was not their man.
   The assassination of JFK utilized some people from the Texas-Southwest. It was not a Southern plot. Upstarts could not have controlled the Northern CIA, FBI, Kennedy family connections. This was a more detailed, sophisticated conspiracy that was to set the pattern for future murders to take place.
   The murder was funded by Permindex, headquarters in Montreal and Switzerland. Their stated purpose was to encourage trade between nations in the Western world. Their actual purpose was fourfold:

    1) To fund and direct assassinations of European, Mid-East and world leaders considered threats to the Western World, and to Petroleum Interests of their Backers.

   2) Provide couriers, agents for transporting and depositing funds through Swiss Banks for Vegas, Miami, and International gambling syndicate.

   3) Coordinate the espionage activities of the White Russian Solidarists and Division V of the FBI, headed by William Sullivan.

   4) Build and acquire, operate hotels and gambling casinos. Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal by William Torbitt.